The Fancy Bastard Forum

O noez! U has a fail. :( *

* Ironies. I has dem. **

** Sarcasm. I has it. :P

Me fail English? That's unpossible!

What's a battle?

Carried over from Dr Horrible thread

Posted By: SuperKatie

aaaaaaalso, americans shouldn't complain about the bastardisation of english :P
xxx

We're Americans, have you met us? We complain about everything! I must say though, that as a Grammar-Nazi, I just can't come to terms with the internet lingo being tossed about in verbal conversation...unless its in an ironic way.

I can't stand txt tlk, but for some reason I love LOLcat. I think the fact that LOLcat has its own distinct grammatical structure placates my inner pedant in some way, and thus I treat it as a conlang rather than a language bastardization. I've never been overly fond of cats, but I am a closet language nerd.

I chafe at netspeak too, but you do have to appreciate the efficiency of it. It's a means to convey a lot of information in a minimal amount of time, and that's what language is about after all. With English being used more and more in international circles I think it's going to become more challenging to try and enforce whichever version of English you consider proper. You don't have to like it, but change is coming one way or another.

That said, if you use a number in place of a word I might be forced to rub your nose in it and tell you "no". I do have limits. :)

In general, netspeak works very well for its intended purpose - abbreviation - but that rarely translates to vocalization. That's where it all falls down for me.

Examples:
I was "laughing" (2 syllables) VS I was "ell oh elling" (4 syllables)
She's my "friend" (1 syllable) VS She's my "bee eff eff" (3 syllables)

Here endeth the lesson.

Posted By: Mike BradyI chafe at netspeak too, but you do have to appreciate the efficiency of it. It's a means to convey a lot of information in a minimal amount of time, and that's what language is about after all.

< hypocriticalsarcasm > You just made a thoughtcrime. I'll notify the Ministry of Truth that we have another unperson to dispatch of. < /hypocriticalsarcasm >

Posted By: SeanIn general, netspeak works very well for its intended purpose - abbreviation - but that rarely translates to vocalization. That's where it all falls down for me.

Yeah I see what you're saying. I enjoy it when it's done in an ironic way, sure, but when people talk like that - you know, like, for realz? - yeah that's doubleplusungood. Actually that brings up another point: the disturbing infestation of 'Z's into plural wordz. Like those ridiculous Bratz dolls.

Ok, this is a copy of an email that was sent to a professor by a student at my school (the professor accidentally forwarded it to me to complain about it because she thought I was someone else).

Hi Ms. Davidson!
omg! im freaking out cuz i dont have a topic yet..i was thinking maybe how to paint a room or how to decorate...idk. It just seemed too lame XD i was wondering if you could help me come up with ideas..sorry..i normally dont do things last minute lol...well if im unable to check my mail before class ill be in your office around 2:30...is that sokay?? thankyou
byebye
JunBuggy


Seriously? This is written to a PROFESSOR...at an actual UNIVERSITY! This is why I am terrified at the prospect of this generation taking over. I mean she signed her name with an AIM handle!

i don't care if americans are miserable! i'm british and i'm a pretty happy person, now that i've got my tablets...

i just meant that it was OUR language and you've changed it. so what's the difference between that and ppl changing it in text messages and on the internet? i don't get how its any different you changing 'mum' to 'mom' and someone else writing 'u' instead of 'you'.

i feel like i hav a valid point and hav provided a lovely british POV.
xxx

Posted By: SuperKatiei just meant that it was OUR language and you've changed it. so what's the difference between that and ppl changing it in text messages and on the internet? i don't get how its any different you changing 'mum' to 'mom' and someone else writing 'u' instead of 'you'.

British English is your language. American English is our language, and we can get as hung up on it being bastardized as we want.

Brits trying to claim all of the world's English language variants as "theirs" is idiocy. The language has branched and evolved, and the branches—though similar—are distinct. The same is true of European Spanish and Mexican Spanish, and European French and Canadian French.

Posted By: SuperKatiei don't care if americans are miserable! i'm british and i'm a pretty happy person, now that i've got my tablets...

i just meant that it was OUR language and you've changed it. so what's the difference between that and ppl changing it in text messages and on the internet? i don't get how its any different you changing 'mum' to 'mom' and someone else writing 'u' instead of 'you'.

i feel like i hav a valid point and hav provided a lovely british POV.
xxx

@SuperKatie-I think you might have taken my comments the wrong way. Also, the simple spelling and pronunciation changes that differentiate "American" English from "British" English are a far cry from completely raping the language to the point where one needs a glossary of terms just to read a sentence. I'm not trying to invalidate your point, or your opinion, I simply disagree.

@Bill-Good points about the differences between North American and European French and Spanish.

ARGH!!! OMG!!!!! thats not what i meant!!! my point is that language is evolving!!! jeeeeeez! 'english' is a culmination of all of the countries that invaded us, the romans, the vikings, the french etc. we then invaded america, as did other countries like the netherlands. since you chose english as you're national language then it has evolved from there.

american english is more of a regional dialect than an evolution, i suppose. i don't like 'americanisation' of english, but i also dislike regional variations in my own country. cockney rhyming slang or liverpudlian pronunciation to me is just as jarring on the ear haha

but i still accept that its natural and bound to happen. just as in this technological age, which is becoming increasingly pc-centric, that the next evolution is over the WWW.
xxx

Posted By: Not MandatoryOk, this is a copy of an email that was sent to a professor by a student at my school...

Yeah, there's so much wrong with that. Wow. The issue here isn't so much the existence of the ... dialect? Rather it's when people are unable to grok the difference between personal and professional communication. That has always been a problem, but netspeak is SO different in structure that it really emphasizes the point. I can't believe how clueless this woman was - really, an AIM handle?

It makes me wonder if we'll start seeing changes in professional communication when this generation is well-established in the workforce. It seems like the majority of people at least accept professional communication for what it is, but there's also a growing trend toward a more casual approach to work.

Posted By: Mike Brady

Posted By: Not MandatoryOk, this is a copy of an email that was sent to a professor by a student at my school...

Yeah, there's so much wrong with that. Wow. The issue here isn't so much the existence of the ... dialect? Rather it's when people are unable to grok the difference between personal and professional communication. That has always been a problem, but netspeak is SO different in structure that it really emphasizes the point. I can't believe how clueless this woman was - really, an AIM handle?

It makes me wonder if we'll start seeing changes in professional communication when this generation is well-established in the workforce. It seems like the majority of people at least accept professional communication for what it is, but there's also a growing trend toward a more casual approach to work.In Soviet Russia, Hoop-Dee-Doo reviews you!

I about DIED when I read that email!

@SuperKatie-Ok, you need to calm down and take a deep breath. I agree, language evolves. However, I don't consider "net-speak" to be a natural evolution of language, I view it as people being too lazy/busy/whatever to type out a full word. Do you think that we'd be saying BRB out loud if we never had to type it out?

Posted By: Not MandatoryI agree, language evolves. However, I don't consider "net-speak" to be a natural evolution of language, I view it as people being too lazy/busy/whatever to type out a full word. Do you think that we'd be saying BRB out loud if we never had to type it out?Book: If you take sexual advantage of her, you're going to burn in a very special level of Hell. A level they reserve for child molesters and people who talk at the theater.

I'm a little ambivalent about that. I don't think verbal language and written language have to always coexist. Verbal language came first, so that's of course what we consider the baseline when we think of "language", but it's not a necessary component. "Net-speak" is really a written language that sometimes finds its way into spoken communication.

I do think using those abbreviations is silly in spoken communication, because they don't actually serve any purpose. Verbal language is already an order of magnitude faster, so even if you didn't have to speak out each letter as a separate syllable you wouldn't be saving much. In the written form I don't see it as lazy - although I certainly used to - but rather it's more of a way to speed up written conversation to attempt to approximate the natural flow of a spoken conversation. In that way I do see it as an evolution.

But context matters. The shortcuts are really only important if you're engaging in some form of instant conversation: IM, Twitter, SMS or the like. In email, blogs, or most forums they lose their utility and then it seems lazy. You also have to know your audience - but that's a cardinal rule of communication anyway.

@ Not Mandatory - Well, the student is paying the professor for an education. The professor in this instance should take the initiative to explain to the student that in professional communications, a certain formality is desired.

@Mike-I was primarily thinking of the email above in my considerations. It just seems to me that some people don't understand that that style of expression is inappropriate in "formal" communication. And even in "informal" communication, I still think its grossly overused.

@Flanked-As I received the email by mistake, I don't know what became of the correspondence, however the professor it was sent to was asking another colleague about addressing formal communication in the class, so I assume it was brought up.

Posted By: Not Mandatory@Mike-I was primarily thinking of the email above in my considerations. It just seems to me that some people don't understand that that style of expression is inappropriate in "formal" communication. And even in "informal" communication, I still think its grossly overused.

Gotcha. I think we're in total agreement there.

Posted By: Mike Brady

Posted By: Not Mandatory@Mike-I was primarily thinking of the email above in my considerations. It just seems to me that some people don't understand that that style of expression is inappropriate in "formal" communication. And even in "informal" communication, I still think its grossly overused.

Gotcha. I think we're in total agreement there.In Soviet Russia, Hoop-Dee-Doo reviews you!

Good deal! I was starting to think it was just me being old!

Ha! Well, to be fair, I'm a bit of a grammar stickler myself so maybe we're just kindred spirits in that respect.

Pet peeves:
* Overuse of the word "literally". Ex: "Did you see that sandwich? It was literally as big as a house!"
* Confusing "good" with "well". Ex: "That was a great game tonight; you really did good." (exception: if you saved orphans during the game)

Old habits that die hard:
* Conjugating lay/lie/laid/lain. I still have to think about it.

There are plenty more, but those are the ones about which I kvetch the most.

Why Oh Yew -apostrophe- Are Eee means "you are". Why Oh Yew Are mean "your".
Two/to/too
Those are the ones that literally make me see red. *ducks*

Yes, I do have the same hangup about "literally" by the way.

Good call, I think I see a you're/your problem at least once a day. Oh, and apostrophes! People go out of control with those! (e.g. "The dancer's went on the stage.") And quotation marks. My god, quotation marks. People seem to be incapable of posting signs without some form of inappropriate quotation marks on it. I don't usually point them out to the offenders, though. Mostly I just complain to my wife.

there's also 'totally' and 'like'. grrr.
'oh my god, that was like so totally awesome'
stfu.
xxx

Agreed, although I must confess to using 'like' more often than I should. :(

Oooh, nice debate going on in here!

@Not Mandatory: That email hurts my soul. What was she thinking?!

I have nothing else to add to the conversation, I just wanted to say it was an interesting read.

Posted By: SuperKatiethere's also 'totally' and 'like'. grrr.
'oh my god, that was like so totally awesome'
stfu.
xxx

Oh god! The abuse of "like" kills me! Good call!

@Mike-Inappropriate punctuation is like fingernails on a chalkboard.

@Sean-Yeah, I don't know how many times I've seen mixed up usage of "there" their" and they're" on PROFESSIONAL websites and publications.

@15step-The funny part was that it was for a communications class!

OMG this thr34d is totally like epic lulz FTW!!1 u r all makeing me ROFL ha lol!

I cringe when I hear "funner" or "funnest". It's also aggravating for me to hear often pronounced incorrectly as "off-ten".

My mother was an English major, and my father was an English teacher. It was a strict upbringing.

I can't hate on the "like" business. I do it all the time!
Repeat viewings of Clueless on TBS hurt this country in ways uncounted....


Another horrible thing is up-speaking! You know that thing? Where every statement? Sounds like a question? HATE.

Arguments for global simplification of the English language, and rebuttals: Let pupils abandon spelling rules, says academic

I wish that email surprised me, but I actually know grown men that write that way. Horrifying.

Posted By: SuperKatieyou chose english as you're national language

We didn't really choose... and it's 'your.' And 'English' is capitalized, but now I'm just being a feminine cleansing product.

Posted By: 15stepAnother horrible thing is up-speaking! You know that thing? Where every statement? Sounds like a question? HATE.

I know people that actually put question marks on statements when chatting. They're not even trying to evoke a response; it's like they think it's a period.

I actually used internet speak back when it first came into widespread existence (around 2000) but it got old fast, REALLY fast. I was actually annoying myself. Objectively, I recognize that it has a right to exist as much as any other regional dialect, but it makes my brain bleed.

lol. :)

Posted By: photozzlol. :)

It burns us!

Posted By: Mike Brady

Posted By: photozzlol. :)

It burns us!In Soviet Russia, Hoop-Dee-Doo reviews you!

Pain...

I saw a t-shirt once that said:

I Don't Know How To Use Question Marks?

I should that bought it then because I haven't been able to find it since.

One thing I would like to say is that I absolutely hate with all of my being the three words "there", "their" and "they're".

Every time I have to type one of these I have to stop and think which one I need.

....But it shouldn't be hard! It's easy to many of us, I'd hope.